Curse

Dazzler · Aug 17, 2005, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by elvis87

what the hell kind of skills do these monks use to make them so invincible, ive watched a few in action and they just wont drop

Monks are pretty tough in general. I am playing a straight healing monk no frills, using Superior Healing and Superior Divine, with about 350 or so hitpoints. We were doing Thirsty River last night and after killing one enemy team, I typed "afk 1sec" and went to tuck the kids into bed. When I came back, the rest of the party was dead except for me as they apparently didn't see my afk message and all ran off to battle without a monk to heal them LOL.

Anyway, I rezed them a few times but the DP was just too great at that point so we decided to start over. So I said I would go kill myself. So I went to a group of forgotten swords and arcanists and started hacking on the arcanist with my 9-req long sword (me with a 4 in swordsmanship lol) to see if I could kill it. With just Healing Breeze and Divine Boon I managed to stay alive plinking away for 2 dmg per hit until the arcanist was down to about 20% health and ran away, at which time I finally ran out of E and died.

My point? It does not take much for a monk to survive certain hazardous conditions for quite a while, even with a "normal" non-105 build.

Roc Rai · Aug 17, 2005, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Nature's Renewal and Shatter Enchantment aren't the only way to take one down. Ever try tossing a health degen spell or condition on one like Conjure Phantasm, Poison, Bleeding, Fire etc.? They don't last very long with 105 or 55 health.

I wouldn't be suprised if the Underworld has a couple new monsters or monster spells used there after the next update. I've run the 105 monk and it works great, gets boring though. It's just for those who need an ego boost and want to feel empowered as a monk. There are only a few areas in the game that will allow one to survive for a long time though. I don't think it's a problem with the build as much as with the areas like others have said. You'd never see one last in PvP especially since monks get targeted first.

I say give the squidies in the UW a couple of mesmer skills. They're not hard now even if you play them normal.

Pandora's box · Aug 17, 2005, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Enough of this! Whenever this build gets nerfed, either in skills or in adding mesmers, poison, fire, bleeding, phantasm to monsters all monks will join the Monk Union and STRIKE: no more help in parties... Mwhahahahahaha!!!

Phades · Aug 17, 2005, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Oh, so instead of seeing 1-3 monks in a city location (1-2 of which are henchmen), it will turn into 0 monks in a city location. Unless of course they are spamming something to sell in local chat.

BigTru · Aug 18, 2005, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Heh, I haven't seen so many "Nerf teh MONKZ!" threads since the "Wamo ONRY! group" days.

Sanji · Aug 18, 2005, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

Enough of this! Whenever this build gets nerfed, either in skills or in adding mesmers, poison, fire, bleeding, phantasm to monsters all monks will join the Monk Union and STRIKE: no more help in parties... Mwhahahahahaha!!!

Not like most of the Underworld Soloers were joining parties in the first place.

Kampfkeks · Aug 18, 2005, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Yeah, nerf the monks!
And while you are it, nerf the idiocy and the amount of morons that flood this game.

Geez, whats your problem with the build? I certainly do understand those that go down alone. For example i went to FOW yesterday with a party. The party royalty sucked. They didn't manage to keep the aggro and basically everyone was running around like a total chicken. Needless to say the party failed even through constant healing...
Whose fault was it? Well you know, most certainly not the fault of the Elementalists that kept pumping out spells too early or the fault of the warrior who went straight for one mob without aggroing the others, and well surely not the fault of the ranger who was standing next to the monks when he kept on firing his big bad lure the baddies bow.
NO! It was the monks fault, crappy healing... noob monk. Scum. Moron. Idiot. Looser. And whatever where the things that came in our direction. Now that is fun... and you guys really... REALLY wonder why we prefer to do things alone?

It's most likely not for the loot. At least not for me. It is because i don't stand those moron teams so i'm either partying with my guild or if no one is there go down there alone. What is your fricking problem about that? Is it because it is called Underworld? Oh geez, go read your own skill descriptions. A lot more classes than monk can solo down there. And EVERY class can fight there in a 2 player setup so what is the fricking matter?

All you guys are pissed about is the fact they can do it alone...
Are you pissed because they can do it alone? Not really. Whats pissing you about that is that you can't get monks for your standard "bash the monk" party. And it is allways like that as soon as somethings starts to go wrong.

Conclusion:
I will party with anyone who can behave.
No one can behave in Underworld or Fissure, especially if another realm just captured favor.
So i won't party with you there.
Fact. Period. Whatever.

/oh edit:
/signed: Nerf Ranger Trapper Teams. Why? Because of the because
/signed: Nerf Warriors. Why? With a protective Spirit they live too long down there
/signed: Nerf Elementalist. Why? They do damage thingies.
/signed: Nerf Necromancers. Why? Because they are necromancers
/signed: Nerf Mesmers. Why? Who in his right mind would fight in THAT dress?
/signed: Nerf Monks. Why? Wait... you're allready bashing those

/edit 2:
Yeah, Natures Renewal while fighting Aatxes. Have fun getting that Protective Spirit taken from you.
For your information: The behemoths DO spam Natures Renewal. And there ARE mesmers down there with heavy health degen. All the monks can do is run a certain path and kill certain mobs. Not solo the whole underworld.
Bringing enchantment removal anywhere on that path will make it impossible for normal teams. Really, go and fight that Aatxe without any form of damage reduction on you (because damage reduction is enchantment based...)

While thinking about it... yes, yes. Make a global enchantment in Underworld that you can't revive who is dead, that you can't cast any enchantment. That every spell with a cast time of more than 1 second fails instant. That you suffer from 5 points of energy loss while you are down there...
yes, do it. NErf the 105 Monks and watch yourself getting owned the next time you're down there in a full team. Why? Because you nerfed your monks to hell and they can't do shit there anymore other than healing spam.

OldIronBalls · Aug 18, 2005, 09:22 AM // 09:22

wether it be right or wrong...i had one trip where monk runs off and leaves team to die.

end result...i now dont trust monks and the fissure has lost its appeal.

so this one thing may be the cause of me going to another game.

NERF IT...NERF IT WITHIN 3 DAYS
or i suspect you`ll start loosing players interest.

Kampfkeks · Aug 18, 2005, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldIronBalls

NERF IT...NERF IT WITHIN 3 DAYS
or i suspect you`ll start loosing players interest.

Great thing. I afterwards then demand to nerf the Wa/Mos because they can do Griffon Runs. If they are not nerfed asap i will leave the game in 3 days... and stuff and whatever. When do people understand it should NEVER be nerf others but strengthen yourself?

About the other thing you mentioned. I had lots of partys. LOTS of partys where one or more Warrios ran off and left their team to die. Am i now supposed to never party with them again?
I also had lots of teams where the rangers lured the mobs right to the monks. Am i now supposed to never party with them again? Same goes to ANY class out there. I've had crappy play by any of those. If i wouldn't party with them i would be constantly soloing every mission.
Can someone (for example the one stating that) explain me why you expect your monks to endure this, while you yourself take the right to say "change it or i quit". Could you please?

OldIronBalls · Aug 18, 2005, 09:42 AM // 09:42

well for a start if a warrior runs off and leaves group it fdoesnt really hurt.
he dies quick so doesnt do it again.

when one of these monks does it in fissure,he not only leaves his team to die but usually provokes the nasties to kill group while he is farming.

the balance of fighters and healers should be kept...as what use is playing if one doesnt need other.

soon have nothing but 105 monks at fissure,then market flooded with items making the economy crash.

especially dirty tactics as most monks go for free to fissure.

Kampfkeks · Aug 18, 2005, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldIronBalls

well for a start if a warrior runs off and leaves group it fdoesnt really hurt.
he dies quick so doesnt do it again.

when one of these monks does it in fissure,he not only leaves his team to die but usually provokes the nasties to kill group while he is farming.

the balance of fighters and healers should be kept...as what use is playing if one doesnt need other.

soon have nothing but 105 monks at fissure,then market flooded with items making the economy crash.

especially dirty tactics as most monks go for free to fissure.

Hate to say it, but it looks like you got no real idea what you are talking about. First off, it is farming Underworld which the monks are exceptionally good at at. While it is still possible to do the same in Fissure it is kinda harder due to a higher amount of Spells that totally ignore Protective Bond (yes there are some), do health degen or remove enchantments.
A Warrior who is leaving his team is leaving it just as weakened as the monk does. And he is probably aggroing the same mobs the monk would have aggroed. And little do you know, a warrior who rushed a mob once will rush it again and again for it is his playing style. Else us monks wouldn't be talking so bad about that class alltogether.
Sadly, the balance is kept. Just because the Warriors Farming Place does not have the Name Underworld or Fissure its by no means a worse farming place. If it is for the Underworld stuff, there are places outside where you can get them too (as a hint, one of them is located in Dreadnought Rift and requires a good running build to get there).
And finally...
By now every class has been said to crash the economy, every change or not coming change is said to crash the economy. So basically, can we say EVERY drop is crashing the economy? I think we can.
The same thing you folks now say about the monks, you said about the Ranger Trapper Teams last month or about the enchantment heavy Wa/Mos aforehead.
Compare it with the Hall of Heroes. First off it was purely warrior. After that we had purely Aeromancers and now we have purely Natures Renewal. ah well and we had the healing ball in the betas. And the next step seems to be warriors again (Energy Denial through Fear Me!).

Do you see what i am talking about? So far every class had its fair share and everything looked out of order and outbalanced for a while, but settled itself as the next hype came.

Pandora's box · Aug 18, 2005, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Lol, sorry I could not resist the temptation in my latest post

But seriously, this game has been nerfed more than enough. The solution is to do the opposite: Give other classes a way to combine skills to make a clever build like this monk build. Not meaning that the result should be exactly the same (being able to solo some mobs), but it should give the same 'this is our own unique class build' satisfaction. Look at the vivid discussions of the monk smiter build. Thats the way we want GW to be, for every class!

JackOften · Aug 18, 2005, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

And the next step seems to be warriors again (Energy Denial through Fear Me!).

Haha, that shit is just so fun.

Numa Pompilius · Aug 18, 2005, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

Lol, sorry I could not resist the temptation in my latest post

But seriously, this game has been nerfed more than enough. The solution is to do the opposite: Give other classes a way to combine skills to make a clever build like this monk build.

That's easy enough: make a 1000 AL armor with +3 to all primary attributes, +7 health regen, and -400 HP. That'd simulate the invincimonk build quite nicely.

Kampfkeks · Aug 18, 2005, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackOften

Haha, that shit is just so fun.

Actually go and try it. It is not just warriors with fear me. No doubt. But have your mesmers drain them dry and KEEP them dry with fear me. Thats what that skill is for.
That stops natures renewal in the tracks as they simply can't put out more spirits without the energy for it. It is no hex, it is no enchantment and it is semi spammable. You won't suck someone dry with it, but you'll keep him dry.

/edit:
Did i halucinate something about Warriors? Like seeing them raid Perdition Rock all alone or clearing the desert in a wink? Or farming chests no other class will get without help? Hm, certainly must have done that.

I've obviously also dreamed about Ranger Teams in the Underworld that put down so many traps the mobs died the very second they entered. Must have been another dream.

Same goes to the elementalists farming Thunderhead keep, using Jalis as a tank. Must have been another dream too. Yep.
GEEZ, people... be honest and look at the possibilitys of your own class, get inventive and farm at YOUR personal place. If it sucks, just get another place. There are enough of them for any class (except maybe for mesmer primaries without the use of secondaries). But why oh bloody hell do you all insist on nerfing someone else? Damnit, go and nerf yourself. Yes yes i'm quite sure when it suddenly is "Nerf the Warrior Spot to death!" all you warriors suddenly go "oh no, thats not fair!". And if its "nerf the ranger teams" all the rangers go moo. But if it is "Nerf the monks!! They are healers and not meant to get money" all jump on the train and scream hooray. That is shizophrenic to a high degree.

Phades · Aug 18, 2005, 11:35 AM // 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

Great thing. I afterwards then demand to nerf the Wa/Mos because they can do Griffon Runs. If they are not nerfed asap i will leave the game in 3 days... and stuff and whatever. When do people understand it should NEVER be nerf others but strengthen yourself?

Gee, anyone who cant figure out a way to counter uninspired melee damgage needs to rethink how to play guildwars. Only part of a "griffon run" that warrriors become more reliable about, is the fact that the scorpians can popout in inconvient places and the warrior can deal with them while in a mixed group slightly better than other jobs. Any job combination can do that segment of the area area, while some can do the entire zone. It doesnt end up being as flashy as the video made by someone who did it with a w/mo, but it doesnt have to be in order to be sucessful.

Comparing the invincible monk setup versus bladed attaxes against any other profession combination in any instance in the game away from that is fairly laughable. This is due to the order of magnitude of difference in offense and defense between the monsters involved. It is compounded by the fact that once it is setup, it will never end unless enchantment removal occurs. This is part of the imbalance existing within the monk profession and causes the imbalance between non-NR enchantment removal versus enchantments.

Numa Pompilius · Aug 18, 2005, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

/edit:
Did i halucinate something about Warriors? Like seeing them raid Perdition Rock all alone or clearing the desert in a wink? Or farming chests no other class will get without help?

Using their monk skills, yeah. And even so a 105 monk can tank griffons & hydras better than a warrior primary.

Monk is teh uber in PvE, I don't see why you guys try to deny that. It was even before the 105 build, it is twice as much teh uber now.

BunnyMaster · Aug 18, 2005, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldIronBalls

when one of these monks does it in fissure,he not only leaves his team to die but usually provokes the nasties to kill group while he is farming.

I thought OldIron here was an Evil Monkhater, but then I thought of Hanlon's Razor:

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity

Sigh.

First they nerve the 105invici's, after that the Earth/Ele-farmers, then they delete all classes except the Mesmer cause it's the only class that has a very hard time Farming on his Own. Stop blaming a class and stop asking for nerves! After the 105's we'll get a new flavor of the month that can farm even more ecto's or gold items or run in 1 minute to Forgemaster.

/signed Nerf monks - stupid Monk-monsters heal themselves!
/signed Nerf Rangers - Rangers+Pet = TWO ENEMY!!!!
/signed Nerf PreSear - Too many black dyes drop there
/signed Nerf Skills - We only need one attack and one heal skill
/signed Nerf Spells/Hexes/Curses - You can all use swords, can't you?
/signed Nerf Players - Only thing they're good at is creating Forums

Numa Pompilius · Aug 18, 2005, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by BunnyMaster

First they nerve the 105invici's, after that the Earth/Ele-farmers, then they delete all classes except the Mesmer cause it's the only class that has a very hard time Farming on his Own.

---

Quote:

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity

Oh, the irony.

So, anyone else has a slippery-slope logical error they want to share?

Sanji · Aug 18, 2005, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

Did i halucinate something about Warriors? Like seeing them raid Perdition Rock all alone or clearing the desert in a wink? Or farming chests no other class will get without help? Hm, certainly must have done that.

I've obviously also dreamed about Ranger Teams in the Underworld that put down so many traps the mobs died the very second they entered. Must have been another dream.

Same goes to the elementalists farming Thunderhead keep, using Jalis as a tank. Must have been another dream too. Yep.
GEEZ, people... be honest and look at the possibilitys of your own class, get inventive and farm at YOUR personal place. If it sucks, just get another place. There are enough of them for any class (except maybe for mesmer primaries without the use of secondaries).

Those aren't completely fair comparisons because Rangers require a team and the rest don't yield Fissure Armor materials.